New Grads on the Move - Inside Travel Physical Therapy with Dr. Sam Morris

We dive into the pros and cons of travel PT and provide insights on contracts during this episode with Dr. Sam Morris. 

Transcript

• Ryan McConnell
• 00:00:01
• Hello everyone. We're here with Dr. Samantha or Sam Morris and she's given me permission to call her Sam. So that's how she wants to be introduced today.
• 00:00:11
• And we're going to allow her to give us a little bit of a story of how she came to the position that she's currently in, and why she's on the call here with us today.

• Sam
• 00:00:22
• Hey. Yeah, super excited to be here. Um, so I am a travel physical therapist. I started doing travel PT fresh as a new grad, and I've done a couple of different jobs and now I'm a traveler for an outpatient company, but I did I traveled as a student, even I worked in
• 00:00:45
• A reservation. The San Carlos Apache healthcare Corporation and Peridot Arizona. And that's really where I fell in love with travel. I worked with travel PTS while I was there. And that's what really sparked my interest that and a bunch of other things which we'll talk about today.
• Ryan McConnell
• 00:01:02
• Yeah, I was just gonna make sure that I get the language. Right. So the preference for the position that you hold would be travel physical therapy or your travel PT
• 00:01:10
• I'm not like a code name.
• 00:01:12
• Right, yeah. So I would say like when you are working with a recruiter, and you're doing contracts for that three month kind of span that would be considered a travel physical therapist.
• 00:01:27
• Versus if you're like working PRN you're kind of floating around moving from place to place, but working in different jobs, but it's more on your own volition. I don't think I don't think you're part of the club, then
• 00:01:39
• Okay, so you don't get a ticket to the cool club. If you're in that role. I got it. Yeah, I was always curious to that's one thing that I've always had trouble answering questions about is travel, physical therapy, only a few people. The chosen end up doing that so
• 00:01:55
• We're glad to have you. And one to ask you.
• 00:01:58
• A little bit about your training outside of you know some of your clinical rotations and things like that and kind of what brought you to the position of travel therapy.
• 00:02:09
• Yeah, so I went to school at Rutgers University in New Jersey. Um, and during that time. Part of the reason I really fell in love with travels because I hate winter.
• 00:02:20
• And I during a clinical rotation. I had to take a shuttle to the hospital, every day, and it would be like 10 degrees outside the shuttle didn't have air conditioning and I was like I never want to do this again.
• 00:02:35
• In my life and I want to be able to set myself up that I can live a life where I don't have to experience winter, I guess, but then also
• 00:02:44
• Kind of in my training, just the way that my clinical Scott set up I was moved from place to place and they had weird roles or it was like, oh, you could be within 60 miles of
• 00:02:57
• Of your hometown, or where you live and all of mine were just in random places that were not close at all to where I lived or it was like close to where
• 00:03:07
• Maybe my mom lived in my apartment was somewhere else. And so I inherently had to travel as a student. And so I liked that like picking up and moving every three months. It was pretty exciting for me. Um,
• 00:03:21
• Yeah. A lot of people like moving around. I can relate and empathize with the fact of trying to avoid winter. I mean, I was born and raised in Texas. And then, Tennessee.
• 00:03:31
• So anytime I made any trips in North. I was like trying very quickly to get away from anything cold and so I at least understand that part.
• 00:03:40
• Yeah. That being said, I know a lot of things happen in the first year of clinical practice. Specifically, you know, growing pains with a new job new position.
• 00:03:50
• What's something that you felt like you really struggled with in adapting to the new setting. And I guess work in general in the position that you have
• 00:04:02
• Yeah, so I my first job as a travel. He was in a setting that I had not had experienced as a student. So it was in a skilled nursing facility all of my rotations. I did pediatrics.
• 00:04:15
• To outpatient ortho one hospital base and then acute care. So I hadn't experienced a sniff yet.
• 00:04:20
• So I think the biggest thing that I struggled with was honestly doing things that were kind of sketchy because I didn't know any better, and all the other therapists did
• 00:04:31
• Whether it was teaching multiple patients at once that weren't Medicare Part B or, you know,
• 00:04:38
• Okay, making that decision. What's billable time what's not billable time
• 00:04:42
• And just seeing. Okay. How did the other therapists, make it through their day and then starting to emulate that. But then realizing okay some of this stuff is like not
• 00:04:51
• Okay, that we're doing this, but then it's also you know that fight of maintaining your productivity and all that kind of stuff. So I think the hardest thing was, was kind of adapting to a setting.
• 00:05:02
• Really quickly, because that's what you have to do as a traveler and then learning for yourself, Okay, what's the right thing to do. It's not the right thing to do on your own with without a lot of mentorship, I guess.
• 00:05:14
• So as a traveler and this is probably an ignorant question, but are you working. Can you select a specific setting like I will only travel to outpatient orthopedics or I will only do skilled nursing. Can you isolate a specific practice area.
• 00:05:32
• So the way that travel PT works is that there are a bunch of different companies where they have recruiters. So I'll just sort of name drop the ones that I have worked with
• 00:05:42
• Advanced travel therapy Jackson therapy partners am as national staffing
• 00:05:49
• And, oh, there's one more. Oh, and then met travelers. Oh, income health. So those are I have, you know, really any travel therapist will tell you to have as many recruiters as you can because
• 00:06:00
• Not every company is going to have the same job some smaller companies might have relationships.
• 00:06:05
• That bigger companies might not. And then vice versa. And there's pros and cons to working with a bigger company versus a smaller company, but pretty much you'll tell your recruiter
• 00:06:16
• What states that you're licensed in and then they will send you whatever List of jobs are available now. Right now compared to a year ago. It's a lot different, but
• 00:06:26
• I think that the ability to work in a certain setting and be selective about that depends on your experience and depends on what what you want. Um, so for me when I was starting off as a new grad, and I was just trying to get my first job. I had no experience.
• 00:06:48
• And I was licensed in New Jersey and South Carolina and so
• 00:06:53
• Had my recruiters all looking. Most of the jobs. I will say, we're in skilled nursing facilities and then to second that I would say would go skilled nursing facilities home health and then outpatient
• 00:07:06
• And I just apply to every single one. I was just trying to get my foot in the door and just try and get my first job.
• 00:07:13
• Every single outpatient job that I applied to as my first job that I didn't have enough experience I had interviews for pretty much every
• 00:07:23
• Sniff job that I applied to and then home health. It was hit or miss.
• 00:07:29
• So that is kind of, you know, where where that is. So I would say if you are a new grad and you only want to do outpatient PT, but you want to travel get experience first because I felt that, and this. This is true even within my first year of practice.
• 00:07:49
• I outpatient job so consistently turn me down for not having enough experience versus I know people that are travel PTS that did have
• 00:07:57
• Maybe they worked for an outpatient chain for about a year and then they went into travel, they had a lot better luck than I do. And then you also kind of have that situation where if you take a lot of contracts and you're just sort of taking what comes up.
• 00:08:09
• Then if you keep getting jobs in only sniffs and only home health and you're having less and less time now that you've been an outpatient and that time is going on well
• 00:08:20
• Now they're you're going to be further away from your rotations, you're still not going to have experience and now you're going to be less marketable to an outpatient position.
• 00:08:29
• Right so transferable skill becomes a problem. So it sounds like you were saying about a year is what the experience level they were looking for as a minimum requirement is that right
• 00:08:39
• I've seen I've seen a year to two people.
• 00:08:43
• When they have when they've denied my application, they'll usually give a reason. It's like, oh, we're looking for someone with one year of experience. Sometimes it'll be more vague, it'll be we're looking for someone with more experience which
• 00:08:55
• You know, you could say that three months is more experience, you could say that two years, three years, but I would say a minimum one year one.
• 00:09:04
• So that being said, if you could go back to your fresh freshly minted, you know, graduated self. What was the, what would be a piece of advice that you'd give yourself in looking for a position or interviewing for a position like you're speaking on
• 00:09:22
• Hmm.
• 00:09:24
• I would say treat finding travel jobs like buying a car.
• 00:09:30
• And that is when you go to buy a car when your current car can't even turn on your desperate and you'll just take whatever comes out, you
• 00:09:40
• And it's the same with travel jobs if you are really struggling to find a travel job and you just take the first one that
• 00:09:48
• Accepts you and it's like, yeah, we have the position. Yeah, we like to end the interview, you can have it if you just take that first one and you don't
• 00:09:55
• Wait a little bit, see if anything else pops up, you might get yourself in a in a situation, you know, because you're, you are more desperate, not because that was the right fit for the good job will say,
• 00:10:08
• Yeah, that's a, that's a really good analogy. And I think that is true. Unfortunately, a lot of people are coming out fairly desperate and
• 00:10:15
• I don't mean to laugh at that but that's the reality is, especially even now.
• 00:10:19
• With all the furloughs and things that have happened.
• 00:10:22
• I'd say that commonplace.
• 00:10:25
• So I want to really dive into some of the
• 00:10:29
• Pros and cons of being a travel physical therapist and you alluded to it a little bit earlier, but would you mind sharing some of the the top. Well, let's start with the the negative side and let's talk about some of the cons of being a travel physical therapist or a traveler.
• 00:10:46
• Yeah, so the top three cons. The first one I would say that it's really hard to make plans and and no two weeks of your life forever set in stone. So you kind of always have to be on edge because any
• 00:10:59
• Time during your travel PT contract, depending on the contract that you agreed to. They can either put in two weeks notice or 30 days notice depend on how you negotiate.
• 00:11:10
• So you could, and this has happened to me. I showed up on my first day and on my first day there like I got a call from my recruiter saying
• 00:11:20
• They had to put in there. Two weeks notice they there were stalking changes, they don't meet you. So I showed up on my first day I have to learn this entire new
• 00:11:28
• Documentation system just to leave this job in two weeks. And if you make plans around a three month long contract, then those plans have to completely change because now you're going to have to start a contract.
• 00:11:41
• Two weeks later, and if you got a job right lined up right away that kind of stuff. So that's one. It's just, it's really uncertain.
• 00:11:47
• And it's really hard to make any sort of plans or, you know, feel secure or leases, which I'll get into later if you sign a lease or an Airbnb for three months getting out of it. That can be tough to so that uncertainty can cause a decent amount of problems.
• 00:12:04
• Um, I would say. The other one is this hasn't happened to me, per se, but it happens to a lot of travel therapists, where they never really feel like they're a part of the team and they don't really kind of
• 00:12:21
• Become a part of where they're working and they just kind of show up and and do whatever they have to, and then leave or it's like they kind of feel like they're given all the tough patients or they're given all the documentation or something like that.
• 00:12:37
• And then the third con is you don't get to pick where you live.
• 00:12:43
• You know, you get you have as many recruiters as you can, they send you all of the jobs that you can't that they have at the time.
• 00:12:52
• And it depends on what states, you're licensed in or what states, you might be able to get licensed in quickly but
• 00:12:58
• I know there were times when I was looking for jobs and at the time I was only licensed in New Jersey and South Carolina and the ones that were coming up, we're just in
• 00:13:07
• Areas where there's absolutely nothing around. It was like a skilled nursing facility in the middle of the woods all the town had was a Walmart.
• 00:13:15
• So then that leads to another whole slew of problems like where are you going to live. Where are you going, what are you going to do for three months. And there's pros and cons to
• 00:13:24
• That as well, I guess, financially, but that makes it really tough to where you can
• 00:13:30
• From one of my friends. That was a travel PT, you know, the first job that she found it was the only one available. She was licensed in Texas. It was in the middle of nowhere. She lived in a Motel six for three months. And that was pretty miserable.
• 00:13:45
• That's, that's a major con. I mean, sometimes they pop up and really awesome places I know another travel PT that worked right outside of Yellowstone National Park for six months, so that's awesome.
• 00:13:55
• Um, but you can also be absolutely in the middle of nowhere, you don't really have a lot of friends, where you're working, maybe, and then that's just three pretty boring months of your life.
• 00:14:06
• Yeah, I would say that what you're describing is probably where I spent the first three years of my practice and
• 00:14:13
• You know, there was maybe one or two major stoplights. And I know that's an upgrade for a lot of people that are practicing in rural areas, but our events for the week you know something that would
• 00:14:25
• Get us really excited about the way you could be like oh Tractor Supply got baby ducks in like let's go look at those and there's not a whole lot else going on.
• 00:14:34
• In the town, you know, you have to travel quite a bit to go to anything that I would traditionally defined as fun so I can see how that would be definitely a con, but also very much an adventure.
• 00:14:46
• And have a bunch of stories to tell. With that, just maybe a little bit of social isolation.
• 00:14:51
• Yes, and I. It also depends on on. Who else is there and
• 00:14:56
• And you know how much, what your schedule looks like because when I was a student on on a reservation out in Arizona, but we worked for 10s. I was with two other travel PTs and
• 00:15:08
• Our closest you know really big area where you could do a lot of things was two hours away, but we would always
• 00:15:15
• Go on trips you would go hiking, we wouldn't we drove up to Utah, like we made the most of it, even though we live out there so it also depends on on who you're with and what your schedule. If it allows for kind of weekend adventures and stuff like that, too.
• 00:15:30
• Right. And on the flip side, where are the big pros or maybe the things that drew you to the position of a traveler.
• 00:15:39
• So first, and every travel PT probably says this, but you the reimbursement. I mean, you get paid way better. I miss travel PT pay right now.
• 00:15:51
• It's low tax or tax free income, depending on how you set yourself up you establish attacks home and you follow those rules and stuff like that.
• 00:16:00
• So you you take home a decent amount of money. And if you're smart with your housing and and finding inexpensive places to live. You really can take home a lot more than your typical
• 00:16:13
• salaried W two kind of job so there's there's definitely that, um, and, you know, being able to be financially independent and
• 00:16:22
• And using that money for either paying off your student loans investing, something like that was really nice. And then
• 00:16:29
• To I what drew me to pizza or travel PT originally was, you know, when you're a student you do clinical rotations. They're usually 10 to 12 weeks at a time.
• 00:16:40
• And I found myself by week 10 week 11. I'm like, Okay, I'm ready to be in the next setting acute was fun outpatient was fun. I'm over it. Let's do something else.
• 00:16:54
• And I think that there are just so many within each setting, there were good. There were things that I really enjoyed about it. But then there were things that I really didn't enjoy about it and that's across the board that's in pediatrics outpatient acute sniff.
• 00:17:09
• Jerry's, whatever it is. There were things I love that there are also things that by the end of the rotation as ready to do something else. So I liked the idea of, okay, you could be in one job you could be in one setting.
• 00:17:21
• But if you really don't like it. It doesn't matter. It's over in three months and three months really isn't that long, and I think
• 00:17:29
• Even if you don't love what you're doing at the time. If you're getting paid better. And if you know that there is an exit strategy.
• 00:17:37
• You're okay with it, versus if you're stuck in a in a long term contract or you're just in a permanent job and
• 00:17:43
• There's not really any end in sight, because you just, you know, you're kind of you're there, you show up every day. You do it.
• 00:17:48
• It, it can really I don't know weigh heavily on you. It's kind of like you feel like you're looking at the rest of your life versus with travel, it's like, Okay. Well, that wasn't really the best but
• 00:17:59
• I know I'm not going to work there for the rest of my life so it's fine. I'm so and i when i
• 00:18:06
• finished school. That being said there was no one setting that I was like, yes, this is the setting that I want to be in forever. I only want to do this.
• 00:18:17
• And I don't want to do anything else. I'm like, you know, there's a lot of people in school where they're like I'm outpatient, I only want to do outpatient I hate everything else. I'm an outpatient ortho guy, whatever, and
• 00:18:31
• You would think that is the route clinical rotations went on, I would find that place or it's like, yes, this is it. This is the place for me.
• 00:18:40
• The more rotations. I did the lecture, I was with what I wanted to do so I wanted to take that time and be a travel and experience as many different settings.
• 00:18:50
• And even within the same setting just different jobs to figure out, like, Okay, what do I want long term for myself because I really, I had no idea.
• 00:19:00
• Yeah. So that sounds like you know kind of one of the other things I was curious about is what sort of you know character traits or
• 00:19:09
• Ways to identify somebody in the class, you know, it's unfortunate that there's a little bit of a joke or a stigma of like outpatient Ortho, but it can you can identify those in your class pretty
• 00:19:19
• Easily but like what would make you go to a PT classroom and say yes traveler I choose you, like, That's you.
• 00:19:29
• Oh, man. It's funny, because I think about the to my two other classmates that are also travelers. And when I think about them. It's like I should have known from the very beginning like these people should have been traveled like they were going to be travelers to
• 00:19:42
• I think it's just that kind of person that's very like a carefree kind of spirit. They're very go with the flow.
• 00:19:50
• And I think, you know, when you're in PT school, you're obviously stressed out all the time. But the kind of person that
• 00:19:59
• You just took a test. Maybe it was really rough, but you're like yeah, like, what are we doing like let's uh let's let's just like chill. It's relaxed. Let's eat something, you know, like that person.
• 00:20:09
• Or um you know when when there's any break from school they're going on a trip, even if, like we are were dirt poor we have absolutely no money or ranking in our student loans, but we have one week off between you know semesters, or whatever. And somehow this person's on a trip somewhere.
• 00:20:27
• Yeah, that's gonna be your travel PC.
• 00:20:30
• Yeah, I was gonna say that pretty much well describes some of the people in
• 00:20:34
• The class that I graduated with that ended up really sticking with travel physical therapy they enjoyed throwing, you know, the Snapchats, of all the different places that they're
• 00:20:44
• At and they're like, Yeah, this is where I'm at, for them. This is home for the next little bit and
• 00:20:49
• Yeah, that you mentioned, even when you didn't have money, you're still traveling, but you also alluded to the pay was a little bit better.
• 00:20:58
• Do you mind. You don't have to reveal any of your, you know, trade secrets or anything like that. But what's a ballpark.
• 00:21:04
• Estimate of things you've heard out there for traveler physical therapist and I recognize it can be all over the place. Like any setting. But what are we talking about in comparison to some of the other settings.
• 00:21:16
• So I will be pretty trans. Um, so, taxes are they suck. Right. I mean, everybody gets taxed on their income. So, you know, you look at when you're, say you're salaried PT
• 00:21:30
• When you're told that you're going to be paid $70,000 a year, which is, you know, for a new grad. I feel like that's pretty that's in that range.
• 00:21:40
• So you're paid $70,000 a year, but you're really not taken home that much because taxes, take out a decent amount. So, you know, from my experience, I was quoted, you know, that's my salary 70 K
• 00:21:53
• Um, I get paid 1900 dollars every two weeks about I haven't done the math, but, you know, obviously it's less than 70, I can tell you that right now.
• 00:22:04
• So when I was a travel PT like a true travel PT because right now I'm a traveler for an outpatient chain. Um, when I was at your travel PT I was taken home anywhere between 1400 and 1500 in a week.
• 00:22:20
• Oh, nice. So that's a pretty big difference. And I would say my offers my first offer was 1450 with my like with health insurance and everything. It was more in the 14 maybe even high depending on
• 00:22:37
• How my hours work for the week. But that was as a as a new grad. I didn't negotiate salary at all in my are not salary. I didn't negotiate my contract at all with my first contract. I was just happy to have one as a new grad. So, and I was taking home 1450
• 00:22:57
• You know, high every week versus
• 00:23:01
• You make like half of that as a salaried employee, I would say. But, and so mine were lower. So there are other contracts and especially if you work out and like California or something like that.
• 00:23:13
• Where 16 plus say a season travel PT will not sign a contract under 15. They're like the 16 1718 kind of family when I worked as a traveler in a co good rehab my contract was a bit higher because of hazard pay as well.
• 00:23:37
• So you mentioned contracts in some of the negotiation process of I guess you're you're alluding to some season therapist moves and things like that. Yeah. What obviously with some of these big companies you see things like sign on bonuses or other incentives to join their team.
• 00:23:56
• Yeah, to talk a little bit about that and kind of your experience in the Traveler field.
• 00:24:01
• Yeah. So talk about it from a
• 00:24:03
• Travel perspective and then also as a perm that also not perm kind of perspective as well. So as a traveler. There's obviously there's so many different companies, you can work with. There is
• 00:24:15
• I would say advanced is a bigger one med travelers, it's a bigger one. And then national stuffing is pretty small. And the big companies.
• 00:24:25
• I mainly worked with advanced for my first few because I felt that it was pretty new grad friendly. They had like a new grad mentor program where they set you up with one of their seasoned travelers.
• 00:24:37
• That works in the field that your first contract was in. So when I was placed in a sniff for my first contract. I was given a mentor who's mainly worked in skilled nursing facilities. That's a traveler for advanced
• 00:24:49
• And I really liked that. And she was a really good resource I could just text writing time and be like, Hey, I have a wheelchair. Wow, I've never done that. Do you have any resources and she would send that along
• 00:24:58
• Um, and I don't know if every company has that that was something that came out to me you know that stuck out to me for advanced and then they also had if you did.
• 00:25:08
• I believe it was three consecutive three or four consecutive contracts that were like full contract. So a full 13 week
• 00:25:17
• contracts for advanced you would get 20 $500. So that's kind of like the sign on bonus right you guarantee a year of working with that travel company and you get 20 $500 um
• 00:25:31
• That being said that there's a lot that can go into that not happening, you know if if contracts are kind of short or
• 00:25:38
• For whatever reason you don't finish fully I think that there's a lot of ways that they could kind of get out of that. But, um, that jumped out to me as well. And then also, if you, if someone referred you or you referred someone to advanced and they finish a contract a full 13 week contract.
• 00:25:55
• Then you also you get like a referral kind of thing like $500 so that was pretty nice. So I think that there's pros and cons to different kinds of companies. I like to doing a bigger one at first because I knew that if I was submitting a contract.
• 00:26:13
• You know, they would know. They're like, oh, this is a traveler from advanced. We've had a lot of travelers from advanced we've always liked them.
• 00:26:20
• And then also, my, my recruiter that I had initially he worked with the new grad program for advanced so he knew all of the challenges that a new grad traveler would face and it's pretty good. I felt at selling me
• 00:26:36
• Even as a new grad to whatever job I applied to and with advanced pretty much every job I applied to at least got an interview and that was not true for the for other companies I have greeters with
• 00:26:54
• Yeah, that that's good information in, you know, I think we talked a little bit about this, but the contracts can be really messy and some of
• 00:27:04
• The contents of that can be deceptive and
• 00:27:08
• Sometimes it's not, but it's definitely something that
• 00:27:12
• Anybody who does see that flashing sign of hey, here's this incentive or carrot on a stick.
• 00:27:18
• I think a little bit more about why that might be the case. And it's not always evil or bad thing. I know a lot of employers have heard some of the cries of
• 00:27:28
• New graduates and you know definitely heard what the apta is pushing out as far as financial literacy and things like that and trying to do things to help
• 00:27:39
• You know, remove some of that weight and that burden of loans, know that I've heard that as an act of goodwill from a bunch of companies and obviously they want to try and make it a win win. So you have to also think about what's the win for them.
• 00:27:53
• Yes. Yeah. And so I think
• 00:27:56
• The thing about advanced
• 00:27:58
• For me, that I've just heard from other travels is that they're, they're really big. So they'll have a lot of connections, but
• 00:28:06
• They tend to pay lower than smaller companies. So I would I would assume that it might be harder to keep people locked her once they start becoming more seasoned, they might get other offers
• 00:28:17
• But to sort of piggyback off of that, um, during a time where travel PT kind of hit a little and it was becoming harder and harder for me to find a job weeks we're going by and I still wasn't really finding anything
• 00:28:31
• I decided to take a job as a traveler for an outpatient chain. And so a bunch of companies will do this and
• 00:28:42
• They sell you on the fact that you're still a traveler. You still can do three month contracts, but you don't have to learn a new EMR every three months you're still working for the same company and it's less
• 00:28:57
• Uncertain like if you sign a year long contract, you will definitely have a year long contract with this company, they're not going to cut it short. There's no two weeks notice it's a year.
• 00:29:06
• Now, where you go might be different than when you initially planned, but you will definitely have a job for this amount of time.
• 00:29:14
• And the way that they get you as a you know they offer you a salary.
• 00:29:18
• But then they offer you a big sign on bonus to sort of be like, hey, we know that you're you're taking a little bit of a pay cut going back to being a salaried employee, but here's this big shiny sign on bonus and with that things will even out
• 00:29:34
• And you'll aim as what you're making as a travel PT. Well, the thing that got me. And this was the biggest mistake I've ever made, not in my life. That's
• 00:29:46
• That's a little bit too too much, but I would say the biggest mistake I've made in my career so far.
• 00:29:52
• And hopefully it's the biggest one. I will ever make. And I've only been working for, you know, to maybe a year and a half, not even two years.
• 00:30:01
• Is that I took a large sign on bonus for a year long contract that even if I work 11 out of the 12 months I still have to pay 100% of it back and
• 00:30:18
• A year doesn't seem that long when you're when they, they're like, you know, it's, you know, they make you a lot of promises outpatient chains are the people that interview for outpatient change or salesman.
• 00:30:30
• They're really good at selling you I'm not like the other guys all our aims are going to be like
• 00:30:58
• I'm not like the other chains.
• 00:31:01
• No, but they are though and and it, it kind of got me because a year doesn't seem that long. They have good comment and I took the opportunity to essentially
• 00:31:14
• Travel PTS taking the law. Um, it was really hard to find a job.
• 00:31:19
• I was getting for whatever reason, I was two and a half will say contracts in and I was getting a lot more denials for not having enough experience and I think it had to do with the fact that
• 00:31:31
• The amount of jobs like took a huge hit in the November, December kind of time. And so every trouble PT was struggling to find a job, even ones that I'm good friends with that have been working as travel PTS for like six years were struggling and so me a new grab six months.
• 00:31:51
• It's even five times harder. So at the time, I was like, You know what, let me be a traveler for this outpatient company doesn't seem like it's going to be that bad. It's only you're in my life. And then I can, peace out
• 00:32:02
• Well, a year gets pretty long. If you're not happy at times, um,
• 00:32:09
• And that being said, you know, a sign on bonus seems awesome. It's just like, oh yeah, I'm getting this money right in my bank account, it's, it's great. I need a new car, whatever. Um, but
• 00:32:21
• When you realize that it's not it's not for you. It's for them. It's for them to make sure that you stay. It makes you think differently, why that is. And I was lucky that
• 00:32:33
• I negotiated mine. I was like, I can only promise you a year of my life. I can barely promise. But if that's as little as you'll take, that's fine.
• 00:32:41
• I'm most, most of them, and even for being a traveler for outpatient chains. It's two or three. It's two or three a two or three year contract and a friend of mine.
• 00:32:53
• Did the same thing that I did a couple years back. She's a traveler and she only does outpatient and there's an outpatient chain that she had worked with frequently that has a traveler kind of physician and
• 00:33:06
• She signed, I think, a three year contract and she did a year and a half, and had to give the whole sign on bonus back
• 00:33:14
• Yeah, it definitely is something that you need to consider the length, whether it's reimbursement for a certification or a sign on bonus those sort of things are important.
• 00:33:25
• Which leads me to another question does do most travel agencies like as far as continuing education give you some sort of stipend amount to
• 00:33:36
• To engage with you know continued learning or anything like that.
• 00:33:41
• So the, um, the main company I worked with. It was advanced they had their own online. See you, they will not their own. But it was, it wasn't med bridge, but it was something like that bridge.
• 00:33:52
• For your during your contract as long as you were in a contract with them. You had free access to this online cu platform. And so you could do that as much as you want but they didn't offer any any reimbursement for for like a live course.
• 00:34:12
• Versus like being a traveler for an outpatient chain like I got like your standard cu reimbursement package for a certain amount of dollars per year.
• 00:34:24
• Right. And then as far as negotiating any other elements of those contracts. I know you mentioned with like sniffs you were able to interview for those positions and things like that. Were you able to negotiate things like productivity standards or anything else within your workflow.
• 00:34:45
• Yes, so
• 00:34:48
• negotiation with the contract that was something that I struggled with it. First I pretty much just with my first one and I talked about this before I just took it.
• 00:34:59
• Whatever they said, I was like, you know what I this is my first job. I don't think I have any place to negotiate.
• 00:35:05
• So I'm just going to take it for face value, which I think I was selling myself short. I think that I could have negotiated and I think that
• 00:35:14
• My first shop would have been a lot different. If I was firmer in my negotiation, something that I would have tried to do with 30 days notice instead of a two weeks notice
• 00:35:25
• So that's, you know, when a a contract is putting in. Notice it's getting cut short.
• 00:35:31
• For whatever reason, they would have had to give me 30 days notice instead of two weeks, which I think would have made a huge impact in my ability to find
• 00:35:41
• Another contract when I found out this contract is being cut short. Um,
• 00:35:47
• So I think 30 days versus 14 days notice is big. At that point, I didn't think I could negotiate.
• 00:35:53
• My pay and I still think that that's true. I would say same negotiating your pay until you've had a couple of contracts under your belt. Maybe someone might tell you differently, but
• 00:36:03
• Um, I, I, personally, if that's the reason why I don't get the job that I wouldn't want to do it will go away because a lot of people apply to
• 00:36:12
• The same
• 00:36:13
• So if someone didn't negotiate and they got it instead of me. Then I'll be pretty upset with myself. Um, but then productivity standards. My first one they set my productivity standard at 90%
• 00:36:25
• And I'll be honest with you, I took that and I had no idea what that even meant I did research it. I was just like, yeah, 90% productivity. That's that makes sense. My
• 00:36:38
• Because I hadn't worked in a sniff before I thought that 90% productivity meant that if I was scheduled eight patients that day, let's say,
• 00:36:47
• I was able to see seven of them like that was. I thought it was like, okay, you saw 90% of the patients that were scheduled or something like that. But it's more of
• 00:36:57
• It your productivity standards more saying can you do point of service documentation, because the better you are at point of service documentation, then you're able to overlap that time that you're doing patient care. But that you're also taking notes. So you're spending less hours.
• 00:37:15
• There, you know, if you're scheduled eight hours of treatment.
• 00:37:20
• And they have 90% productivity. Well, then you can only be there about what like 2030 minutes more at the end of the day, so you better be pretty good at your notes. I didn't have an understanding of that.
• 00:37:31
• So I didn't negotiate that at all and 99 or 90% productivity as a new grad that has never worked in that setting before was very challenging for me at first, to the point where in the first few weeks that I was there.
• 00:37:47
• My director rehab said if you don't get your ish together. We're going to have to put in our two weeks notice
• 00:37:54
• And they, there are some places that are stricter than others like that place. Once I kind of gotten my groove. If I had a week where I was at 9% if my productivity was 89% I would be in my director of rehabs office.
• 00:38:07
• There's
• 00:38:09
• My another sniff contract that I had my productivity standard was 85% but my entire day was documentation, which is also
• 00:38:19
• Something that happens frequently in the travel world where it's you do the documentation, whether it's evaluations progress notes of data plane errors that kind of stuff, and then a PTA might carry out the treatment. And so with that,
• 00:38:34
• My productivity standard was 85% I never hit that
• 00:38:40
• And it just realistic and my director or he have said something to me once, and then never said anything to me again. And I finished that entire contract.
• 00:38:52
• So basically you need to when you're interviewing with some of these people or some of these companies have a really good idea of what the model is that they're using as well as you know how feasible that productivity.
• 00:39:07
• In if you're new to it, and you've never experienced what that looks like maybe a good question to ask the hiring manager would be what percentage of your employees do hit that consistently or how long does it typically take to
• 00:39:21
• To achieve that level of productivity.
• 00:39:25
• You know is there onboarding for that.
• 00:39:27
• Yes, so I definitely can relate to that. That is one of the things in parallel to outpatient world is, you know, the expectations are the expectations for visits per week, or in a day.
• 00:39:40
• Enter that code treatment is that directive treatment. Yes, that built in documentation time. Is there a part of your day that's administrative or marketing.
• 00:39:50
• So am I seeing those 12 visits or 10 or wherever you are in the country with all of these other responsibilities. So that does make it extremely difficult.
• 00:40:01
• Yeah, I would say the most important questions to ask in any travel PT interview. So when you you know you submit your
• 00:40:12
• Well, you actually don't submit it. So your, your recruiter will send you the list of available jobs and you'll tell them, like, Hey, I'm interested and pretty much what it is is it'll say the location, it'll be like
• 00:40:25
• New York City sniffs New York City outpatient New York City acute care and you'll say, Hey, I'm interested in those two jobs, they will submit your reading.
• 00:40:37
• List with just kind of shows what things that you have experienced with what things that you've done in all the different areas of PT so they'll send that over to those potential jobs and then
• 00:40:49
• That job will reach back out to your recruiter
• 00:40:51
• And be like, hey, we're interested in setting up an interview. It's usually with the director of rehab and then it'll be a phone interview right all travel PT jobs or phone interviews. So that's also a challenging thing. Like, how do you make yourself stand out over the phone.
• 00:41:07
• Much like standing out over podcast.
• 00:41:09
• Um,
• 00:41:12
• But so the things that I would always ask in my interviews, where have you had travelers before do you normally use travelers.
• 00:41:24
• Do they normally day the entirety of their contract, um,
• 00:41:31
• What does a typical day look like for a traveler.
• 00:41:36
• What does your need look like right now. Like how busy are thing and that sort of, okay, what's my job security, looking like right and then
• 00:41:45
• Obviously like depending on the setting. What's the productivity or what's my visit expectation and then all always do.
• 00:41:55
• If you have have had a lot of travelers. Where do they usually live or find housing. Where do you know anyone that rents rooms out to travelers. If you have travelers a lot
• 00:42:06
• And that the the rent costs and things like that. Is that taken out of the weekly payment that you're given any way or is there stipends on top of that for cost of living adjustment, things like that.
• 00:42:18
• So your pay divided between an hourly rate and then a stipend. That's for meals and housing so you're usually paid a lower wage. It's like 17 between 17 and $20 an hour for 40 hours a week and then the other half of that income is a non taxed stipend for housing and meals.
• 00:42:43
• So that's your pay per week. So say if you have a 1400 dollar
• 00:42:50
• Contract. It would be like $700 a week or that actually hourly pay $700 are. And then the other $700 would be that non tech stipend. So then, a lot of people
• 00:43:03
• Depending on what your loan structure is that you're on paper income. It's very low. It's especially for physical therapist. It's $17 an hour. So when you're looking at your loan payments.
• 00:43:16
• If you're doing an Income Based Repayment Plan. They're going to look at your income and be like, you can't afford to pay your loans right now. So your Income Based Repayment number
• 00:43:28
• Every month is going to be quite low. If that's the loan structure that you decide to do
• 00:43:33
• So then you're taking home a lot more money, but you're not paying as much in your student loans and you're also not taxed on it. Now, you also have to in order to not be committing tax fraud.
• 00:43:46
• Have an established tax home and pay some amount of money to that tax home and then be home at that at whatever you made your tax on
• 00:43:58
• 30 days every year and you have to be able to have receipts that show that in case you were audited that you are
• 00:44:06
• You know essentially doubling your expenses every month so that it looks like you you know you are traveling, you know, like say if if they if I'm from I'm
• 00:44:21
• Savannah, Georgia, and a job comes up in Wyoming, then yes, that's outside of my tax zone. But if a job comes up. If a travel PT job comes up within usually it's 50 Miles within 50 miles of where I live, that's within my tax home. I'm not going to get that stipend.
• 00:44:43
• I say
• 00:44:44
• So and so, because of that, when I if I take that job out in Wyoming. Then I have to show that I'm still paying towards something where I'm from.
• 00:44:55
• Right. There's different ways of doing that we're getting around that a lot of people. It's like you own a home. Maybe you make that a rental property. So you own a home, you're making payments to a home somewhere and then you're traveling
• 00:45:10
• Or your. Some people have quote unquote paid rent to a family member, and they have a lease and that's your established tax home, but maybe that family member kind of screwed send money back to this and I'm legal. I don't really know, but people do it, you know.
• 00:45:31
• Yeah, you can take home or have your money.
• 00:45:37
• Every month as a traveler. Again, I'm not making legal advice. It's and I'm not saying to commit tax fraud. I'm just saying what other people have done.
• 00:45:48
• Yeah, certainly, establishing a residence and making it an Airbnb. That makes sense. As far as, you know, having a place to go back to if you were on a period of
• 00:45:58
• You know absence for a furlough even with whatever you know company you're working for or finding other creative ways to make you know that money work for you, rather than against you.
• 00:46:10
• Yeah. Obviously. Everybody would go to your, your CPA or financial advisors for the the legalities and in best ways to do that in your individual situation.
• 00:46:19
• Yeah.
• Well, you, you also bring up a really good point because as far as financial literacy goes
• 00:46:25
• You know the Traveler position does afford a vehicle or a quicker way to maybe repay. Some of those loans and
• 00:46:33
• And get a little bit more financial freedom because you mentioned that $17 an hour isn't enough to pay back loans. But you know what, at this rate $50 and $75 an hour isn't enough to pay back these
• 00:46:47
• Loans. So, any advice. So I'll give you a chance to stand on a soapbox for a minute and kind of talk about some of that stuff. And what you wish you had known in in management or whatever course you had that shed some light on this topic.
• 00:47:02
• Yeah so personal finance really isn't talked about in school. It's more like okay so it's going to cost you anywhere between 100,000 and $20,000 to do this and then you're not going to get paid shit. Have a good one.
• 00:47:17
• And so it's it's tough to, you know, sort of figure that out on your own. Luckily, I had some some downtime. Before I started working my first job and graduating because my license so long.
• 00:47:32
• Where I really invested a lot of my time into looking into personal finance and what my options were in terms of, do I want to go gung ho and
• 00:47:44
• I forget what that guy's name he has that podcast or essentially did. Oh, David Ramsey where he's like don't buy anything eat rice and beans and pay off all your student loans and I'm like all yes thank you for the sage advice, really great.
• 00:47:57
• Don't spend money and put it all into your lungs never thought of that one. Um, but
• 00:48:03
• I was like, okay, there's two options. I could either budget like crazy and throw as much money, a month to my student loans.
• 00:48:12
• I could do the Income Based Repayment Plan, which my payments would be pretty low, but then be locked in for about, you know, 25 years and then be taxed on whatever I don't pay back
• 00:48:24
• Um, or I can set up like the shorter term where it's I'm make like 20 $200 a month payments or whatever.
• 00:48:32
• And then do that over 10 years, something like that. So it was looking at all my options. And so when I was making that true travel PT money. I was just throwing money at my lungs. The Rowan month
• 00:48:43
• Um, and I was like, You know what, it's fine. I'm not spending that much on read. I'm still I still have a decent amount in savings every month that I'm putting in there. I'm just starting out my loans.
• 00:48:54
• But then I started talking to a a travel ot that I worked with. And he was like, no, don't do that, you need to invest and I was like, you're probably right.
• 00:49:10
• So one of my friends is a financial advisor and I started just, you know, talking to him researching other things and so
• 00:49:19
• I changed my focus a little bit for right now, especially now that my income is changes. I'm not the true traveler anymore. I'm not making that travel money. I was like, okay.
• 00:49:30
• How can I set myself up. Not for right now but 10 years from now 20 years from now 30 years from now, because, yes, I understand like paying off my student loans right now. Sounds good.
• 00:49:43
• But okay, my debt might be zero 20 years from now, but then what about beyond that, if I'm, if I'm working as a traveler and I'm not getting that much in a 401k, then
• 00:49:56
• What's my retirement going to look like if I'm changing jobs. I'm changing travel company so often, how am I setting myself up for success. So I restructured and
• 00:50:07
• I changed to the Income Based Repayment Plan, which was lower lower payments. So I went from paying like 20 $500 a month to my student loans to my for now $400 a month based off of the Income Based Repayment Plan.
• 00:50:20
• I took that other money and I started investing in an index fund and then I'm mainly in an index fund and then a little bit in a Roth IRA.
• 00:50:33
• And so, um, people don't really talk about index funds, they're not as sexy as raw fire raise or, you know, different sort of investment strategies more
• 00:50:46
• Risky ones, but the index. Are you well fun. The way that it works is that it's a
• 00:50:54
• It's a long term investment strategy. So it's not going to be something that I can bank on 10 years from now, but it's going to be more in that retirement age, but the younger you start investing in one, the more you're going to capitalize on it.
• 00:51:06
• And then it also is sort of a more bang for your buck. It's also works as my life insurance policy. It could also be short term and long term disability.
• 00:51:14
• And the difference between the index, how you open a Roth IRA is that you know Roth IRAs might change with the market, especially what you're investing in, but with an index it will fund.
• 00:51:25
• It will go up with the market, maybe not as drastically, but it'll go up in a stepwise fashion.
• 00:51:30
• But it won't go down if the market goes down, which especially right now. It's really important to have a non risky long term investment strategy because we really don't know.
• 00:51:42
• I mean, we didn't know Cove, it was going to happen. We don't know what's going to happen, five years from now 10 years from now 20 years from now. So to have something that is a long term and that stable and that you still get a very, very good return on investment.
• 00:51:56
• That you know appealed to me a lot. And I think, you know, even when you're young, a life insurance policy is something that you need to think about when you have student loans because
• 00:52:05
• I don't know if you have like a cosigner who is either a family member or anything like that. But if you die, not to be morbid those loans are going somewhere. And if you're in $200,000 in debt.
• 00:52:18
• You don't want that on your mom. You don't want that on your spouse, especially if you're young.
• 00:52:22
• So it's terrible to think about, but you know if Kobe has taught us anything, like life can be pretty darn short. So you need to think about that. So having something that is, you know,
• 00:52:33
• All of those purposes a life insurance policy and investment strategy and all of that, and one for one price appeal to me. And the way that I sort of thought about it was like, okay, say if I plan to put $1,000 a month somewhere.
• 00:52:50
• Between loans, investments, things like that. If I put $1,000 a month to my loans every single month then that money is just going to the loans. It's not turning in to anything else versus if I pay less than my loans every month. And I'm just making the bare minimum payments.
• 00:53:08
• But I'm investing the rest of my money now that money that's being invested is going to turn into more money. One day versus just go somewhere to die in the United States government, um,
• 00:53:23
• So I chose to do that instead now everybody's situation is different. If you have the ability, if you want to burn yourself out working to PR ends and working full time and pay off your student loans in five years.
• 00:53:34
• Good for you. I support it. I want to work 40 hours a week, I don't work anymore than that and so
• 00:53:40
• I thought, you know, if I invest will and my return on investment 25 years from now when when you finish that Income Based Repayment Plan and I have to pay taxes.
• 00:53:51
• On whatever else is forgiven. Well, if I return on an investment whatever I have to pay in taxes isn't going to be that much comparatively
• 00:54:00
• Kind of my my thought process. Now again, everyone's situation is different.
• 00:54:05
• But I don't think that investing is discussed enough and you know you need to think about turning your money into more money right now. I think when you're young and you graduate school.
• 00:54:16
• All you think about is your student loans and surviving, but you also need to think about 50 year old you. You also need to think about if you die young. You also need to think about your future.
• 00:54:28
• And how you're setting yourself up for success that you know the furnace. He is pretty darn soon. So how can you set yourself up where you can retire young and still live comfortably. Um, and not have to work it like Walmart or something, you know,
• 00:54:43
• Really great advice because that now be for another episode but the burnout factor is a huge thing and yeah
• 00:54:50
• Aggressively, you know, seeking out opportunities to pay that down is definitely a strategy, it's out there people do it, but it also is a major source of burnout, among other things.
• 00:55:02
• With time wrapping up a little bit here. I had a couple questions just fun ones that we asked all the time at the end of the show.
• 00:55:11
• As far as your biggest lesson learned in the last year, what would you say you the sharpest learning curve and experience you've had in the last year would be
• 00:55:23
• I think overall, the theme would be like, be flexible because life is so uncertain. I think everyone could sort of relate to that right now but
• 00:55:32
• Every single contract. I've had as a as a PT As travel PT was cut short. My first one was during PD PM and a sniff that was cut short, then my second one there. Someone was hired perm and it was cut short. And then in my travel traveler for outpatient I was furloughed
• 00:55:53
• Because of coven and then took a job in a co bid rehab. Our census was low, which is an amazing thing to have a low census and a coven rehab.
• 00:56:06
• So I had to quickly change my plan and quickly change.
• 00:56:12
• What I wanted to do and where I was living and pick up quickly. And so I had to learn how to be very flexible.
• 00:56:18
• And just sort of on drop of a dime, be like, Okay, this is what I'm doing next. And I think that I'm not only if you want to be a travel PT, you have to be flexible. You have to go with the flow. You have to take change as it comes and
• 00:56:31
• And be able to play in the future, but also not at this time, but I think even as a as a PT and whatever setting you work with being able to think quickly and think on your feet is is a necessary skill.
• 00:56:43
• Yeah, I agree with you there. And then last question for you. Before we wrap things up. What would you say
• 00:56:51
• That golly, I can't even think of what my question was, you got me on that. But as far as advice for people moving forward looking at travel therapy. What would you suggest
• 00:57:06
• Find the right recruiter, find a lot of recruiters more recruiters equals more opportunities for jobs and then also
• 00:57:16
• Knowing your worth and knowing
• 00:57:20
• What a good culture to work in you know if you if you hear if you're in your interview and they're like yeah 90% productivity, you're doing all the documentation or, you know, it's an outpatient chain and they're like, yeah, so three every hour no breaks eight hours a day.
• 00:57:40
• And that kind of stuff. It's like, okay, do I really want to be there for three months and then also I i guess kind of the, the lesson I learned just be being flexible. I think being flexible and being versatile being able to adapt quickly and learn quickly is. It's invaluable.
• 00:58:01
• And is there anything that you're currently doing either professionally or personally to improve your skill set.
• 00:58:08
• 00:58:11
• Well, I've been trying to do more content and my free time I've met bridge, but I would say I'm because I'm nearing the end of this contract. I'm sort of
• 00:58:23
• Looking into what I want to do next. But I'm actually in the process of applying to go back to school to get my master's in public health. So that's sort of where I'm going right now.
• 00:58:34
• Awesome. And as far as the listeners out there if they wanted to reach you and ask any follow up questions. Would you mind sharing any information for them to contact you.
• 00:58:47
• Yeah, I love, I love talking to people of being a resource. I love sharing lessons that I've learned the hard way. And I how it somehow in a year and a half, learned many lessons the hard way.
• 00:59:00
• Physical Therapy travel PT, whatever. So, uh, you can find me on Facebook. Samantha Morris is my name and then Instagram. It's at Sam underscore Morris 27 last name is spelled with two R's and want us
• 00:59:21
• I'm still waiting for somebody that's a guest on this show that has some sort of really crazy. I don't know. Top Gun sort of name and trying not to laugh. During that so you're just very plain unfortunate.
• 00:59:34
• Yeah yeah
• 00:59:36
• I actually have two Instagrams, I'm very into the environment. So I have one where it's just a blog about plastic free living and it's called Sammy saves the planet. So that's, I don't know. That's kind of weird.
• 00:59:47
• Yeah, let's hope that we get people following both so
• 00:59:51
• Really
• 00:59:53
• Hey,
• 00:59:55
• Well, we really appreciate your time. Sam, and thanks for hanging out with us on spilling the DPT and we'll have this episode up and invite you back for more topics in the future. Yeah.
• 01:00:06
• Hopefully I didn't talk too much. Thank you.
• 01:00:09
• Thanks.