Spilling the DPTea

Don't Learn the Lesson the Hard Way

• Ryan McConnell • Season 2 • Episode 12

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In this episode, Logan Burton, Brittany Clark, Grace Harrison, & Hannah Krantz will be discussing the do’s and, more importantly, the don’ts for DPT students and new grads entering the clinic. As current students, we feel that there is a disconnect between expectations and performance in the clinic. Our first guest, Ashley Campbell of the Nashville Sports Medicine and Orthopaedic Center, describes her stories from her time as a student PT and now as a clinical instructor. Our second guest, Dr. Suzanne Greenwalt, a professor at Belmont University and practicing therapist, discusses the biggest mistakes she has seen in the acute setting and how to avoid them. Both speakers provide tips to our listeners on how to go into a new clinical setting with confidence. We’ll also be sharing a few write-in stories from past students regarding their worst moments in the clinic!


Ashley Campbell contact info: ashley@nsmoc.com

Suzanne Greenwalt contact info: suzanne.greenwalt@belmont.edu

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Speaker 0 (0s): Hello and welcome to Spilling the DPT mini season. I'm your main host, dr. Ryan McConnell, an assistant professor at Belmont university in the physical therapy program. And over these next several weeks, we will be showcasing our talented students as they deliver solid interview styles on PT hot topics surrounding management and strategic planning. So sit back, listen and enjoy. 



Speaker 1 (34s): Do we want, this episode is called don't learn the lesson the hard way, and we're really excited to share this information with you guys about what to expect is PT students going out in the clinic, as well as learning some of the do's and don'ts I'm Hannah, one of your co-hosts and I have Logan here with me. Hey, everybody. We are both current third year students and we feel that there is a disconnect between expectations and performance in the clinic. And so you were hoping this episode can bridge that gap a little bit and make everyone feel a bit more prepared and confident when it's time for you to go out and tackle the real world. Yeah. And I feel like that can be pretty scary because you know, a lot of us have been in school most of our lives, and we still have a lot to learn about etiquette in the professional world. 

So we hope you guys find this podcast entertaining, but helpful. Yeah. So first we're going to be hearing from two guest speakers and then stay tuned until the end where we will share a few very interesting stories in it from past PC students. These are going to be a really good, so you definitely want to stay tuned until the end. Okay. So let's go ahead and get started with our first guest speaker Ashley Campbell Ashley I'll have you start by introducing, introducing yourself and telling us how you got to where you are today. And then we will dive into some questions. So I'm Ashley and I'm a physical therapist at Nashville sports medicine and orthopedic center. 

That is one of my many jobs, my claim to fame having far too many jobs. So I am a graduate of Belmont university in 2011, and I started my career in an outpatient orthopedics in the green Hills star clinic. So I was there for a few years, made my way out to Franklin, to a game or a, the star clinic out at a game, which is a Sports facility and treated a lot of athletes out there, which was my passion. I wanted to get into specifically sports medicine and did that for a couple of years and then decided to kind of start my own business in the golf world of all things. 

I do not play golf. I'm actually really bad at it, but I do have TPI certifications. I'm a level three medical, and I'll also have my junior certification and found kind of a passion for blending physical therapy and sports medicine with the sport of golf, opened a business out there, actually with dr. <inaudible> and started that out in Franklin in the early parts of 2015, it's called performance one. At the same time I was approached, I was no longer working for a star. 

I was approached by Doctor bird's physical therapy team asking for some part-time help. So I started working at a national sports Medicine as a PRN physical therapist. And I honestly don't even know what happened, but really long story short. I'm now the director of rehab at Nashville sports medicine and orthopedic center. I oversee the clinic here and kind of manage the day to day. And then I also teach continuing education courses to select a functional movement assessment and some others. So, and I won't bore you with the rest of my,


 

Speaker 2 (3m 28s): Well, that's already a long list. So I'm a fun fact. Ashley was actually one of my first CIS for Belmont. And so I got the pleasure of working with her back in my spring of my second year. So that was a good experience. And I have a good Student. Thank you. I highly recommend highly recommend. So, all right. We'll get started with our questions and when to start out with a bang, you know, it's Halloween. So we'll start with a little spooky side. Can you give us a horror story? You remember of seeing a student that like made a mistake or something that really stuck with you, like with a new student or a new grad?


 

Speaker 1 (4m 2s): So I would say I've been pretty fortunate to have good students, smart students, and a new grad wise. I do the hiring. So I tried to be smart about that. I think everyone always has, you know, a moment where things get really awkward and uncomfortable with the patients. Patients can kind of make it that way. And your ability to respond to it as a student or a new grad is, is not as a quick or sleek if you will. 

So that's probably a lot of what I see S a couple of safety things that I can remember have occurred where, you know, you always remember like walk the wheelchair, hold the gate belt from your classes and PT school. And we don't see a lot of wheelchairs and gate belts in our facility here, but 



Speaker 2 (4m 57s): Plenty of room for mistakes though, I've seen 



Speaker 1 (4m 59s): Some really unintelligent choices happen with some gate training and stuff like stair training that made me definitely hold my breath. I had a, a post-op day one hip scope patient almost fall off as a step because my Student was not guarding or anywhere near or the steak. So as far as like a scary thing happening, and that's probably the biggest thing. 



Speaker 2 (5m 26s): Okay. And now we'll take it as when you were a student or a new grad, what was one of your most scarring moments or most eye opening moments that you experienced? 



Speaker 1 (5m 34s): Gosh, there's probably a lot of them. I'll tell you a couple. So as a student, I would say my hardest rotation was my sports medicine rotation at Oschner Sports Medicine in new Orleans. John Guido was my CIO, love John to death. We're still friends to this day, but he is a really, really tough CIA and he has a reputation of making students. So I went into it kind of thinking, you know, that I might cry, but I was going to try really hard not to. 

And he definitely made me cry and he made me cry in front of a medical resident. I think it is. I don't know if it was a med student or a resident. Honestly, I was more worried about myself at the time. I definitely didn't peg you as a crier that's for sure. Yeah. Embarrassing. So he asked me like a, honestly, a very simple question related to the shoulder in front of the resident who was over in the Therapy clinic hanging out. And I mean, if you would've asked me to the question in two minutes before that resident was stayed in there, I would of known the answer, but I, I dunno, I just couldn't speak. 

I couldn't say anything. I wish I could totally tell you total blackout a moment to crying. And I had to walk out and we just walked out and she started crying. You can go back. So I didn't go out and we had to pull myself together and then show my face back. I mean, it was like morning, so it's not like I had to make it through the rest of the day. So humbling moment. That was very humbling and embarrassing as a student, as a clinician, cos there's been plenty. I treated, I, I evaluated a patient and then started treating and I treated for manual therapy and stuff for about 30 minutes on the uninvolved side and in God, to me during all my protocols to the end of it. 

Yeah, yeah. And the end was like done and like reassessing the patient and like, you know, and they, they, they then decided it was time to point out to me that I was on the tour already done. And yeah, that, that was, that sucked. And then probably the other most like scarring, like thing that I remember the most. And I tell any time I teach you or whether it's students or when I go out and I teach the SFMA and we talk about just like kinda the minutia of the clinic. 

I was about four months into my practice. And I had a workman's comp patient that came to me in the diagnosis from the referring physician was upper trapezius tendonitis, which I had never heard of that. You've never heard of it. I'm definitely not one of them interest interesting that diagnosis. And as I, you know, as much as we are taught, I fully evaluated the patient upper and lower quarter screen. She had a dermatome and myotome issues and I was like, well, she had cervical range of motion restrictions, long story short. 

I was like, this is a cervical radicular apathy. So when you document, you put your ICD nine codes at the time is nine and now it's done. And so I put cervical radicular apathy as her diagnosis on my eval and man did crap at the fan. So workman's comp does not like it. If you give a workman's comp patient, a different diagnosis, because then a lot of times the patient we'll get, you know, lawyers involved in various things. 

They have something else going on and they asked for MRIs and they ask her this and that I was, I full-heartedly believe. And my company and my boss back to me a a hundred percent that I was in the right, as far as I was treating the patient for the right thing. But it turned into a nightmare situation. We had to basically I treated the patient for about six visits before workman's comp like got the claims through and like threw up the red flag and got really mad. So we had to basically like eat all the visits and then we had to continue. I did continue to treat the patient with the quote unquote, correct. 

Diagnosis of upper trapezius tendonitis. 



Speaker 2 (9m 39s): Did you kind of had to start from scratch and like Reval and start there or no, 



Speaker 1 (9m 42s): I had to redo the about you Val, make sure that that was the diagnosis code, which by the way, we didn't even have in our system, we had to make up, make a new, like new its own. CCO is an up in support or tendonitis is what we called it. It was like a very generic code. And then I had to treat it as such and make sure that my documentation reflected that, and I was not allowed to talk about the patient's neck. I was not allowed to educate them about them. 



Speaker 2 (10m 5s): So had to be consistent through and through for the Oprah show. 

Speaker 1 (10m 8s): Yeah. And that was miserable. It was really hard for me to, to do that because I felt like I was that wasn't what was best for the patient. It was a really weird situation, but I was only like four months in and it was, I thought it was gonna lose my job. Like I thought I was going to get fired, losing sleep at night where, you know, the head of workman's comp for the company team to the office to talk to me about it. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to get fired. Definitely humbling. I did not get fired. They were incredibly supportive of me. They helped me figure out what you use to like, you know, you get creative in how you, you know, if you're doing like an upper trap stretch, but you're doing cervical traction as you're doing it. 



Speaker 2 (10m 47s): And maybe you were kind of reroute your thought on there. 




Speaker 1 (10m 49s): So I tried to do my best to give the patient what they needed without treating what I felt they actually had. So 



Speaker 2 (10m 58s): Sounds like a good, a good moment. That would be humbling as a new grad. Yep. So when you kind of flipped roles and went from being a student to a new grad, how long until you became a CIA and started taking students?


 

Speaker 1 (11m 11s): Oh man. Well, I had a lot of students that would come non PT students that were trying to get into PT shadowing shadow or yeah. And I, I really enjoyed teaching them while they were in the clinic and, and definitely knew I wanted to be a CGI. I think I took the, the <inaudible> course within my first two years from graduating. And I think I probably took my first Student just over maybe a year and a half to two years out. 

I, or it was probably two years. Cause it was right after I took the class and I took my first student. 




Speaker 2 (11m 51s): How did you figure out what the best teaching method was? I remember being your Student and you told me ahead of time, you were like, this is what I do. And this is what I figured out has worked. And I will say it was, it was great. You kind of just let me figure it out on my own. And typically you would step in if needed, but you never embarrass me or put me on the spot or anything like that. So how long did it take you to figure that out? What worked 




Speaker 1 (12m 11s): Well? You know, when I first started, I thought like I really needed to have a really structured plan as a CGI and I quickly kind of threw that plan out the window and just realize that every person's different. I basically structure in my teaching style around in the way I learned best, which is like kinda trial by fire. I'm trying to throw them in. Yeah, I think so. I like to let my students observe me at least the first like little bit and kind of see how I 



Speaker 2 (12m 42s): Do things a lot to learn there too, that 



Speaker 1 (12m 44s): I try to make sure they understand. I don't expect you to be a replica of me. I don't expect my colleagues, my coworkers to be a replica of me when I hired new people. I want them to be their own therapist. I don't expect them to be a bunch of little mini MES, but I want them to be able to learn from my experiences. So I like to let students kinda jump in head first, as much as they're willing to do. And if they're holding them back, I mean, I will, I will put them in uncomfortable situations. I, I like to not hover. 

So back to 



Speaker 2 (13m 16s): John can go back to that. She does not have her. 

Speaker 1 (13m 19s): Yeah. So John Guido used to hover over me. He would literally stand with a clipboard and a pen over your shoulder, like physically over my shoulder when I would do evils and stuff. And he, I could hear that pen scratching notes as, 



Speaker 2 (13m 33s): Or like, what did I mess up? But I do wrong. And so it was very distressed. 



Speaker 1 (13m 37s): And for me, because every time I heard the pen scratching in my head, I was thinking he's writing something bad down, which in reality, a lot of times he was making notes about things I did. Well. He always was good about balancing what I did well with what I needed to work on. And he was really good about forcing me to like identify my weaknesses and say them out loud and then giving me feedback on the positives. But I hated that hovering sensation. And so actually at my midterm at the four week Mark, when we did my midterm CPI, you know, you give you feedback to if, is there a good CIA, you should be able to give them feedback. 

And he asked me what he could do better. And my one request was that you stopped hovering. And that I didn't care is if you could, as long as he could hear me, like, I didn't care if he was like three, four times. 



Speaker 2 (14m 25s): How far, and where are you at this point? Were you like multiple weeks? And then a couple of days. Okay. You guys feel about the courage I, at that point, you know? 



Speaker 1 (14m 31s): Yeah. And I was like, I think I would do so much better if I couldn't hear you writing on the clipboard. And so he backed off, he was like, that's cool. I was like, I know that you are listening. I'm totally okay with that. I want you to listen and watch, but when you are like physically breathing down my neck, I get really self-conscious. And then I feel like I just go down. I just fall. So we did that. And my second four weeks were like night and day, as far as my confidence in my ability to get through an evil. And like he even said, he was like, that was really good advice. 

And he was like, I should, you know, I should try and identify that early on with you guys better. Yeah. So I'm not Way with my students. I have a lot of times, like, I mean, I'm, I'm in tune with everything that's going on in the clinic. Like even with my coworkers and stuff, I'm just kind of always listening. It's really, it's actually why I usually don't get my notes done during the day because I'm paying attention to other things. So I will, a lot of times with my students, I'll sit at my desk while they're across the clinic, doing their evil and I'm watching and I'm listening and then I'll kind of jump back in. 

Or if I need to be like physically in the room, I try and just sit back and keep my mouth shut and let them do their thing. 



Speaker 2 (15m 41s): A hundred percent build a lot of confidence being your students. So I would say your teaching method, you teach you about that definitely pays off. And I think you should stick with it for sure. But since you've been on both sides of it, so you've been a student you've been, I'm just a practicing clinician in the, now that you're a CIO, what would be your three musts? Four takeaways are tips that you would give to a student as they are entering their first clinical or entering being a new grad as their own. 




Speaker 1 (16m 8s): Well, I think there's a massive difference between your 
first clinical and being a new grad. You learn a ton on your clinical rotations. I was totally different between clinical number one and clinical number four with a a hundred percent certainty. I mean, by the time clinical number four rolled around, I felt very confident that I could kind of hold my own. And so one is like, give yourself grace. So as a student, like going into that first clinical it's super stressful. I mean, I can still like, remember the sensation of like the nausea and butterflies. 



Speaker 2 (16m 40s): Hey, I was super nervous and a little intimidated coming in to, to be a student.




 

Speaker 1 (16m 44s): For sure. I'm very intimidating, which is so as 

Speaker 2 (16m 46s): You're not though, you're like, thank you. You're not, when she gets to know you that you are not intimidating at all. And I tell people that's still to this day 


Grace 

Speaker 1 (16m 53s): Ah, thank you. Spread the word. But as a student and just realize is you do not know everything. You will not know everything and you need to be able to kind of work your way through the Hard stuff, as best as you can. And if it's a situation of safety or, you know, something could go really wrong, then you ask, but do your best to, to kind of let yourself grow and the really uncomfortable zones that are going to be part of that comfort zone. 

Yeah, sure. As a new grad, same thing. I mean, you still have to show yourself some grace, you got to know what you don't know. Like there is a lot, they don't teach you in school that I, I mean, I learned something new all the time, not just like diagnosis and treatment wise, but just how to deal with people you'll grow and evolve and like how to handle uncomfortable situations, how to handle patients that just break down, crying on you, how to handle meet, like patient people can be really mean. And you know, you just, you kinda learn as you go with that sort of stuff. 

And that's probably the hardest part of being a new grad, especially if a patient knows you're a new grad and I'm not saying that you should ever lie, but I would always include your clinical experiences. Some of your, when they ask me how long you been doing this, you know, be confident in what you know. Yeah. Because as soon as you, you, as soon as they know that you're, you're new in your fresh will take advantage, they will definitely, there are some personalities that will take advantage of that in different ways. And that can make it really, really challenging on you. So, but also don't be afraid to, you know, be confident, especially with your co-workers. 

You should always ask questions, but don't let go of those opportunities to, to also, you know, impart some of your knowledge. I know hiring people who are fresh or out of school than I am. There is stuff that I forgot. And when something weird comes in that I haven't seen it in a long time, I looked at them cause they've seen it and learned about it more recently. And so, you know, it's, it's all, we're all here to help each other. So 



Speaker 2 (18m 56s): Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on our podcast and tree and well, we appreciate it very much and I'm sure a lot of people out there, we actually put it on to a Facebook page asking people would be interested in this topic and we had a 160 replies. And so we are very thankful that you were able to give us some advice from being one, a student in the same program that we're in, in tubing on the other side of it being a CII. So thank you so much. 



Speaker 3 (19m 24s): Wow. We'll Ashley you said some really good things and it's really nice to hear from people like her who kinda play a role on our program and to hear that, you know, some of the mistakes that they've made and to hear that they are not perfect either and that we all make mistakes as students. And it kind of makes me feel better about like what I've done so far in the clinic as a student. And I don't know about you Logan. 

Speaker 2 (19m 43s): Yeah, I'm very, very thankful. She did not use me as any of her horse stories for her students because I would have been mortified, but my biggest takeaways would be for sure, making sure that you are being your own clinician. That would be really relevant for me being her student. I just know that I need to figure out what works best for me. And she really made a point to talk about that. And then also showing yourself some grades. I know it's always easy to be super hard on yourself and find what you did wrong, but you're not going to learn unless you look back at what you did wrong and take away from that. So what about you? 

Yeah.


 

Speaker 3 (20m 14s): Being honest with your CIO, I think that's a big takeaway from that because I know that it can be kind of difficult if you don't feel like you're really communicating well with your CIO. You're not getting a lot of out of your clinical. You might be afraid to speak up and say something, but like, we just have to remember that they're really here to help us. And that's why they became a CIO so that they have to learn it better. Yes. And where they're to learn. And so they want to hear if you're having issues and if you're struggling with something and so don't be afraid to let them know that. 

Speaker 2 (20m 45s): Yeah, of course. I think that communication is key when it comes to 

Speaker 3 (20m 49s): Being a student and being in a clinical setting. But I know our next speaker, dr. Greenwalt will have a lot to give and I will let Hannah take over with that interview. Okay. Well, let's get started. Dr. Greenwalt is our next guest speaker, obviously she's one of our professors at Belmont. So dr. Greenwalt I'll go ahead and let you kind of introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your career path and how you ended up a Belmont and then we'll move on to our other questions. 

Speaker 4 (21m 15s): Okay, great. Thank you. Well, thanks for having me today. She said that this is Suzanne Greenwalt and I'd been a physical therapist for 18 years. And the first 11 years of my career was all in full time clinical practice. And also in rehab management. My areas of practice have been in acute care and skilled nursing facilities, as well as inpatient and outpatient rehab settings. 

So a little bit of everything during my time in skilled nursing facilities, I got involved with a geriatric residency program and started doing some teaching with the residency program. And that ultimately led me to developing some stronger connections at Belmont and then transitioned into a full-time faculty position here in 2013. And I continue to practice PRN in skilled nursing facility settings. 

Speaker 5 (22m 16s): Okay. So we're just going to start off on a cool note here. We were wondering if you had any horror stories or funny stories from past students in the clinic that you've seen, just any of that, maybe stick out to you for your time. This is a PT. 

Speaker 4 (22m 32s): Yeah. Okay. So that's a good question. I don't know if I would say a horror story, but as far as, you know, some of those more traumatic experiences that students have reached out about, you know, growing to the wrong facility on the first day, you know, if the site has multiple locations, you know, not knowing exactly which one you were scheduled at, certainly does not go over all on your first day. So we have seen that happen before, you know, in other, just a little snafoos like that, where somebody didn't check into like the uniform or other requirements and then getting there and being sent home on the first day is always pretty traumatic for students. 

And I think those can be a, you know, kind of a rough introduction to the clinic world. 

Speaker 5 (23m 22s): Absolutely. Wow. Do you have any stories from when you were a student or a new grad in the clinic? 

Speaker 4 (23m 30s): Okay. You know, the one that always comes to my mind when I think about like those moments where it was a total learning moment and also like, Oh, I can't believe I just do that. When I was, I was working, I was doing a clinical rotation at a hospital and it was in the town where I went to PT school. And in fact, one of my PT professors worked here in there as well. And she happened to be there in the hospital that day and my site and I were in a patient's room and the patient was on contact isolation. 

So we were in gowns and gloves am I see, I left the room for some reason. I can't recall why. And I finished up the patient's treatment or was almost finished that needed assistance in scooting the patient up in bed. Cause I could not move them myself. And I walked out in the hallway to get assistance without thinking that I needed to take off my contact, isolation, gown, and gloves, and walked right out in the hallway. And it just so happened. Like as soon as I walked out, my professor had to be walking down the hall and I just got a big earful about not following precautions. 

And of course she is the faculty member had taught us about that. And I just remember being mortified that there was standing in the hallway in all of this isolation garb. And of course the hallway was packed with nurses and other people. But I will say to this day, whenever I'm leaving a patient's room and I've been in isolation, gowns and gloves, I always think of that story. And you can like almost just picture her voice being, they take it off of where you leave the room. 

Speaker 5 (24m 59s): Oh my gosh, that would be definitely traumatic for me. 

Speaker 4 (25m 4s): And then probably one of my most memorable or more traumatic experiences. I was a brand new grad and I had a patient. I was working within the acute setting and I went to do a transfer with the patient and we got to the chair successfully. It was a, a cardiac patient cardiopulmonary patient. And I don't remember a full diagnoses, but she had a chest to, and all I know is that after the chance for, I noticed that the chest tube was no longer in place, which as you all know is a really, really big deal. 

And you know, it took some work with the nurses and the medical team. We had to kind of figure out what had happened. And, and what we think happened is that this had been dislodged prior to that moment in Therapy, but that was a super traumatic for me to see that happening. Cause I just felt like in that moment, Oh my gosh. Like I did something really, 

Speaker 5 (26m 6s): Really wrong and right. Oh my goodness. So do you have any pointers for our students or new grads on how to develop confidence once they get out into the clinic? Or maybe any advice for those who maybe seem overly confident as a student? 

Speaker 4 (26m 20s): Yeah. And those are both good questions. Cause you know, those are two ends of the spectrum. You know, you don't want to be so under confident, but you also don't wanna be overly confident. Cause certainly we all still have stuff to learn. I would say that for those that are under confident, like your clinicals is your time to build up your confidence. So you use that as a chance to ask as many questions and to practice your, you know, is kind of a gift because never again in your profession, are you going to have someone else right there who can help you? 

And as you can ask any question to 'em and who ultimately is responsible for the decisions that you're making, you know, like once you have graduated and you have the license of your own, you are responsible for everything you do. So those clinicals are really that time to build that confidence. You know, it's a, it's a gift that we have to be able to spend so much time in the clinic with a CGI. So I would say, ask as many questions as you possibly can. There are no stupid questions and feedback I get from CIS. 

Honestly, they are more frustrated when we have students that don't ask questions in students, who do you ask questions? So I would say for those that are, under-confident just go into it thinking like this is your chance to get confident. And every PT has been in your shoes. Every, every PT has been there, but definitely don't shy away from opportunities because you don't feel confident in what you're doing. Cause this is your chance to really gain that knowledge. And for those that are overconfident, you know, at some point or another, that will probably get checked by your CGI or another clinician. 

'cause you always, always to have, you know, more stuff to learn. 

Speaker 5 (27m 59s): Thank you, dr. Greenwalt that's a great advice. I definitely think I can get better at asking questions in the clinic. I think I've seen now that can be more beneficial for me. 

Speaker 4 (28m 7s): Well, that can be nerve wracking. It can be a nerve wracking to show your vulnerability like that. But I will say it's, you'll gain a lot from it. 

Speaker 5 (28m 15s): Okay. So kind of switching gears a little bit. And can you tell us a little bit about your teaching method that you developed and kind of what led you to this teaching method that you used, whether that's in a classroom or in the clinic? 

Speaker 4 (28m 32s): Yeah, that's a good, that's a good question. I would say in the clinic, when I have students with me in the clinic, which doesn't happen as often as it used to, but I still have those occasional opportunities. And when I'm in the, the clinic facility to, to take a student that's there for the day, you know, I ask them a lot of questions. So if we're doing chart reviews and reading through a chart and you know, they tell me, yep. I read that page. That looks good. Like, I'll start asking questions. Like why or why are they on that medication? 

What diagnosis do you think that's for? Like that? Doesn't say that they are, you know, their past medical history, doesn't say that they have this, but do you think there's a possibility they have, you know, but really doing that type of critical thinking as we go through documents and then even the same with treatment planning and being around patients, I'd like to have a lot of discussion with the students really trying to get inside their head, trying to figure out where they're coming from, why they're thinking the way they do. 

So. Yeah, I'm definitely the teaching method I use in the clinic setting is definitely a very conversational, you know, we have a lot of discussion and I think that works really well. As far as in the classroom. I think what I have found his work, the best for me is when I can bring clinic situations into the classroom. So whether it's through true stories of patients I've seen or other case studies, but when we can take that foundational knowledge, whether it's in a course like pharmacotherapeutics or a cardiopulmonary, and really implement that in a patient case, I think that it has more meaning and value for students. 

And they're able to retain it more as opposed to just like spitting out details. 

Speaker 5 (30m 20s): Yes, I definitely agree. And I've already kind of seen where that helps us translate it into the clinic. So that's a great method. So kind of in summary, could you give us maybe three takeaways are tips that you would give to a student before their first clinical setting or before maybe they go out into the real world is a new grad. 

Speaker 4 (30m 41s): Yeah. You know, one of the neat things about clinicals is that you get to go all over the country or when it's not a pandemic, a potentially all over the world, those travel opportunities and being in different geographical regions are such a gift because you will encounter PTs who had gone to so many different schools, you will encounter students from other schools. And you'll begin to realize that there are a lot of different ways to practice physical therapy. 

There are a lot of different techniques out there. Some schools do things a lot like we do here at Belmont and some schools do things very differently. And so take those moments to really embrace and Learn other practice patterns. So I would say avoid, you know, going into situations of, that's not how we learned in school and kinda making that assessment in your mind that, Oh, they don't know what the way we did it. And that doesn't necessarily mean anybody is right or wrong. It just means that there are other ways to do things. And so let your clinicals be a time that you figure out what techniques you like the best and help shape, what kind of clinician you want to be. 

'cause there's not always one right way to do something. And so that would probably be my first takeaway. My second takeaway would be your clinicals. What you get out of them truly depends on what you put into them. So the amount of effort you put into them, the, the, the, the questions that you asked, the time you invest in it is really going to be it's it's up to you, what you get out of it. So I I've seen students even on rotations that they are not, that's not their favorite, still come away with so much new information because they decide to just really embrace it for, for what it is, and still take every moment to learn. 

And, and so just know that you'll get out of it and what you put into it. And then my third piece would be, you know, definitely as you start a new rotation, take those first few days to kind of sit back and observe a lot, observe the personalities in the department, observe the schedule's observe what people will do for lunch or observe how things go, because you will learn kind of what the, the unwritten expectations are for you as well. And I share that, you know, with a story in mind of a, of a past student who like everyday at lunch would walk out to his car and sit in his car and eat lunch and not stay in the Therapy gym. 

And it had a very negative affect on the rehab department, or they may, they thought less of that. Student because he didn't stick around when they sat and ate lunch together and talked about patients and brainstormed about ideas, or maybe did a little in services. So be a part of the team, you know, observe what everyone else is doing and be a part of that team, because while you're there for those, those eight weeks, you are a team member. 

Speaker 6 (33m 28s): All right. Well, thank you so much, dr. Greenwalt. We really appreciate all your advice and for being willing to come on and talk on this podcast. So just thank you so much. You are welcome. 

Speaker 2 (33m 39s): Okay. Doctor Greenwalt had a lot of good advice you, for sure. Don't want to be that student that is walking down the hallway in your PP, after being in a room with a patient that, that gives you some type of exposure, especially when you're going to see one of your professors or teachers, and then something that seems like something so small would be eating lunch with your CGI. I feel like this is going to go a long way in helping build that relationship. And that bond is you learn from them. 

Speaker 6 (34m 6s): Yeah. It's not really something I had thought about before, but I can see how that is really important, especially to people to build a personal relationship with your CGI. For me, I would also say other than what you said, those are good points, but another thing is, don't be afraid to ask questions. If you're worried about your confidence in what, not in the clinic. I know that everyone says that there are no stupid questions, but in all honesty, I think you're a CIO is going to think better of you. If you do ask those dumb questions than not ask any questions at all. 

Speaker 2 (34m 39s): So you have to build that confidence somewhere. 

Speaker 6 (34m 41s): Yeah. Okay. So lets get to the good stuff we ask for a few stories from one of our clinical coordinators about some of the craziest things that have happened in the past students in our program. And she had a lot to share, but we're just going to go over a few. So Logan do you want to take the first one? 

Speaker 2 (34m 57s): Yes. Okay. I'll start out with two, but this first one sounds like an absolute nightmare. So a student and their CGI Dr in the parking lot on the very first day of the students clinical and had a minor car wreck in the parking lot and obviously that's awkward, but to make it more awkward, the, see, I ended up suing the Student for car repairs and I just cannot, I cannot wrap my head around the idea of spending eight weeks with my CIA, if there in the process of suing Way 

Speaker 6 (35m 30s): The word. I cannot imagine that that would be a tough thing to go through that for sure. And so everyone, you know, make sure you're not just worried about how you're presenting yourself from the clinic, but know how to navigate the parking lot. That one. 

Speaker 2 (35m 46s): Okay. And then another one we had given to us was a C I wrote in talking about how she had two students. They were each a year apart. So she had one, one year and then one the following year and both of these students on the very first day of their clinical when they were exposed to dry needling, each of them fainted. So that was two years in a row where she had a Student thing on the very first day of their clinical. And let me tell you guys, if you think you were not going to be that student, that faints, you are probably wrong because I was that student this summer, I was helping lift a patient in my acute setting in the hospital. 

And I was the person to discover a bed sore that nobody knew was there. And it was my first time seeing a bed sore. And I had to leave the poor nursing staff hanging. And I ran out to my CIO and fainted into her arms. So 

Speaker 6 (36m 43s): I never hadn't eaten anything that day that 

Speaker 2 (36m 45s): I had not eaten now as a rookie mistake, but all right. And then Hannah, Hannah's got a good story to top all of this off. 

Speaker 6 (36m 51s): Okay. This one is my personal favorite and this one's kind of long. So it really paints the picture though. So it's worth, it is definitely worth it. Okay. So this was a response we had to oppose that we made online. So I'll just start. This is his narrative. So I was a new grad about two months into my career. When the company I was at assign me as a student, let's call him Dan. One day we had a young nurse come in, we'll call her Becky for a simple issue. I told Dana, it was all his now Becky was an attractive girl. 

And Dan obviously thought so as he made a comment about it before the eval, I brushed it off and told him, just get it done. The next session Becky comes in and just like she was about to hit a nightclub, very skimpy clothing. I thought this is odd Dan, to have another session, I can see that there is a bit of a flirting. It wasn't enough to intervene, but I just noted it. And the third session, this patient brings her mom and things get weird as a mom, basically interviews Dan, as if he was asking for her daughter's hand in marriage, Dan looked extremely uncomfortable, but manages to get through the session afterwards. 

I asked what that was all about. And he just said he was as weirded out as me. So before the next session and ask, if he can talk to me about Becky, he tells me that she is crazy. She has been texting them nonstop and was driving around his neighborhood, looking for him. When I asked how she got his number and approximate living area, he said, she messaged him on Instagram asking about her shoulder, which is what she had come in for, for PT. He said he wasn't uncomfortable treating her. So I sent them on lunch early and planned on treating her myself. 

However, once you realized Dan wasn't there, she started crying hysterically. She refused to be treated by a me and said, Dan was the only one allowed to work with her. And she didn't understand why you would lead her on. I asked her about calling him and she said that he gave her his number on Instagram and they were supposed to meet up last night, buddy, sit her up. I asked it, they had met them before and she refused to answer and stormed out. So sounds a little fishy here. All right. So when Dan returned, we decided he would no longer be treating her once again. 

The next session she cried, I asked her about her and Dan and she did say he was only not continuing to treat her because of his quote, stupid girlfriend and quilt. So apparently Dan had a girlfriend and you said that she was now messaging his girlfriend and he didn't know what to do. So I asked them about it again. And to my surprise is story changed a bit, which I assumed this was the version that he was telling his girlfriend. So in the end I had the patient switched clinics. I thought that was best for everyone. And I did not have any concrete evidence that Dan in the patient had had inappropriate interactions, but I suspected Dan went on to finish his rotation and graduate. 

I hope he remembers not to hook up with any patients in the future. 

Speaker 2 (39m 40s): I wish you guys could see my face right now. 

Speaker 6 (39m 44s): And that may or may not be the craziest thing I've ever heard happened as somebody in the clinic. I mean, no joke. I feel like this goes without saying, but guys don't hook up with your patients. Don't get it 

Speaker 2 (39m 57s): Involved with your patients outside of the clinic. Do yourself a favor. Okay. You guys thank you so much for tuning in myself and Hannah had so much fun along with our group members Brittany and Grace and we would like to give a special thank you to Ashley Campbell Suzanne Greenwalt and Gilbert for their input for the content of this podcast segment. 

Speaker 6 (40m 16s): Yes. Thank you guys so much for being a part of this and thanks for all you do for us and to everyone else. Thanks for tuning in for this episode of Spilling 

Speaker 0 (40m 23s): DPT and that's all for this episode is Spilling the DPT will look forward to Spilling with you all the next time. And if you don't mind, in the meantime, drop us a rating in a comment and will look forward to you tuning in next time.